Talk:Muslim

All talk upto September 2004 has been archived to Archive 1. The "All Terrorists Are Muslims" thread has been moved here. The "Protected" thread has been moved here.

Merge with Islam

I disagree with the merger because it confuses things. Being in a Muslim country and growing up around muslims you learn theoretical Islam and then you see what the Muslims do. I am fully agreed with the statement "Islam is a religion of peace" but I usually add "but Muslims are not largely a people of peace". Yes there are many reasons for this but it does not change the ACT it only goes to mitigate the motivations. Its like folks saying "Buddhism beliefs in a moderate path" and a person adding "....but many Buddhists amass wealth". We should have one page on the theory and another on the practice or else it ends up being editted to hell as we have difficulty seperating both....--Malbear 07:26, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)

That's your opinion that Muslims are less peaceful than say Christians. And not just an opinion, it's also a wrong opinion. Even if we do a body count of just last century, Christians would lead the chart (given both World Wars started in Europe). OneGuy 05:47, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Well, I'm curious to see that body count! As far as I know, among the largest numbers of victims caused by 'ideologically motivated' violence (taking politically, philosophically and religiously motivated ideologies together), the largest mass-butchers were:

1. China's civil war & Mao Zedong's ideologic purifications: atheist motivated;
2. Sovjet (Lenin & Stalin) massacres, gulag archipels, purposefull mass-starvations etc. : atheist motivated;
3. Nazi Germany: atheist and fiercely anti-christian motivated.

So, where are your christian-inspired massacres? --Rudi Dierick 15:39, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I don't see what atheism itself has to do with any of those massacres. Really, the Communists also believed that 1+1=2. Does that mean their killings were also driven by knowledge of kindergarten arithmetic as well?--66.120.157.194 02:01, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)

It might be better to refer to all of those slaughters as "anti-Religion," rather than atheist-motivated. All of the incidents described were led by radical atheists who felt that all religion was harmful, despite in many cases living in areas dominated by their respective religious backgrounds.--Whitti 22:22, Nov 25, 2004 (UTC)

All Terrorists Are Muslims

See Talk:Muslim/All Terrorists Are Muslims.

Large crowds celeberate terrorist attacks? =

The claim is made in the article that Al Jazeera shows pictures of cheering crowds when a bomb blows up a US humvee and kills some US soldiers. That's not terrorism. It's perfectly justified to kill illegal foreign soldiers who have invaded your country and then to celebrate it. Where is the PROOF that large crowds are always seen celebrating on the streets after a terrorist attack? Where was this celebration say after attack on Russian school? The only case I am aware of is of some Palestinians celebrating after 9/11 or some Palestinians celebrating suicide bombing in relation to Israel. I want to see proof that Al Jazeera always shows pictures of crowds celebrating a terrorist attack (note: attacking foreign troops is not terrorism). OneGuy 12:44, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Ok then since you are fine with the factual accuracy that some Palestinians were celebrating int he streets after 9/11 and Israeli bombings I will adapt the statement. --Malbear 13:27, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Is attacking foreigners terrorism when they are not troops?

Of course, but now you have to post proof that large crowds were celeberating on the streets after a terrorist attack. Not all Palestinaians are Muslims by the way. Morover, Palestianians are like 0.00001 % of Muslim population? How is that relevant to an article on Muslim? You need to show relevancy to the topic there OneGuy 13:39, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)

And Palestinian dislike for Israel and the US (who provide weapons to Israel) is in specific context of Israeli occupation of Palestinian land and the ongoing conflict. How is that relevant to the article on Muslims in general? I will wait for you to tie that together and explain the connection there. OneGuy 19:35, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)

There are pages for Palestinians, or start one if it doesn't exist. what theyfeel goes in there. Alternatively if you can somehow come up with a sentence which goes "some muslims feel......<insert stuff>.....and this is typified by the Palestinians". To which I will add "but some Muslim Arabs are represented in the Israeli parliament and many Muslims still live in the United States. Many Muslims trade with and study in the United States. Many American companies operate in Muslim countries and in fact oil services companies such as Halliburton, ExxonMobil, Schlumberger, (will look for some more) form a large percentage of the organizations extracting petroleum from muslim countries indicating that Muslims may not be totally against these nations."--Malbear 08:14, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I didn't insert that line about Palestinians. YOU DID. Your irrelevant rambling is not making sense above. I can respond to it, but I won't. Stick to the topic. Why did you insert that line about Palestinain celeberating? OneGuy 08:32, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Actually you did insert the line about Palestinians celebrating so your statement is a LIE and ipso facto you are the LIAR, meaning no better than those you accuse as such. Initially I added a statement about Muslims celebrating which you corrected to be Palestinians celebrating after 9/11 and Isreali bombings....which I added based on what you wrote.--Malbear 11:48, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Anyone can go to the history of the article and check who inserted that statement. YOU DID. I mentioned Palestinian only here on the TALK page as a side note. You initially claimed that Muslims are seen celebrating on the streets every time (EVERY TIME!) a terrorist incident occurs. I disputed that, and asked you to prove it. Gosh, dude. Are you really this stupid or are you just playing games here? How old are you anyway? OneGuy 12:31, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Protected

See Talk:Muslim/Protected.

Moslem or Muslim?

• I know that, all things considered, this is a trivial question, but I've never had it answered: what difference (if any) is there between the meanings (or usage) of 'muslim' and 'moslem'? -Litefantastic 10:54, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)

none. "Moslem" is a more old-fashioned transliteration of the same word. For consistency, the article should stick to either orthography, and not mingle both. dab 14:08, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)

'Allah' or just God?

as a student of religion and person intimately familiar with islam, i question whether, as with the previous question regarding 'moslem', the term 'allah' should be less preferable than simply using 'God'. the shahada doesn't mean 'there is no god but Allah', it means 'there is no god but God'. Similarly, Jews & Christians who pray in Arabic call God 'Allah' in Arabic but in English, say simply 'God'. Anyway seems like a good way to demonise others. Imagine if the articles on Christianity all said, "Christians believe in Elohim" or some similar thing. Em Zilch 15:47, 27 Oct 2004 (EDT)

It's a matter of convenience, to distinguish between the Islamic god and the Christian God. Since it's so widely used in our culture, let it be. --bas

Huh? The Islamic God IS the Christian God, isn't He? :P